Author Topic: What are the default Data folders for?  (Read 3339 times)

carlk

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What are the default Data folders for?
« on: January 19, 2011, 06:59:28 PM »
Also known as:  the case of the vanishing files...

HyperNext creates some default folders within the Data folder for each project: Backs; Code; Movies (containing 'blank.mov'); Pictures; SoundFiles; Sounds; Temp; Texts.  It would be helpful to know what these are for - as well as what they are not for.

Why do I ask? Because one of them made a whole set of my mp3 files vanish from within it.

For my spelling test program, I created one set of text files and I also recorded two sets of sound files, which I want to keep separate because some are programmed in while others are user created.

I put the text files (containing several lists of spelling words) into the Texts folder, which works fine.  I recorded mp3's of me pronouncing the spelling words and I put them into the SoundFiles folder, which works just fine.  This is something any user could do, so it's a dynamic collection of files.

I also recorded nearly 40 different files that provide various verbal prompts, encouragements, congratulations, etc. and put them into the Sounds folder - and they all vanished as soon as I opened the program.  Well, all except for one file.  And this was before my program had tried to access or do anything with these files - which are only used with the SoundPlay command as called for.  As an experiment, I put new copies of these file into the Sounds folder and again they all vanished, except for the same single file.  I concluded that wouldn't work so, within the Data folder, I created a new folder which I named Prompts, and I put new copies of my mp3 files into it, changed my code accordingly so the program could find the files, and it all works fine.

Apparently, the Sounds folder is not for me to put any files into.  So, the question is:  What is the Sounds folder for, and why did it make all but one of my mp3 files vanish as soon as I opened my spelling program?  And why did that same one file remain each time?  (It was not the first one on the list, nor the last, but in the middle of the sorting list, and it was neither the first nor the last one created.)

And, while I'm at it, what are all the other folders for, or not for?

Obviously, I've been able to use the SoundFiles and Texts folders successfully.  But I was not able to use the Sounds folder as I thought I might be able to.  So this leads me to wonder about, and be very cautious of, the purpose of the other default folders.  And why does Movies contain 'blank.mov' while all of the other folders start out empty?

Oh, and why did HyperNext create two "invisible" files named 'spdata' and 'spreses' in the Data folder for my program?  (I've already read about the "invisible" '.DS_Store' file elsewhere on this forum. I have to filter that name out of the list of spelling word files in that folder each time I load them into the popup menu.)

This is all stuff that needs to be documented for us.  Or have I missed seeing info about this somewhere?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Malkom

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 09:06:41 PM »
I'm so sorry about the lack of documentation and the problems it has caused you.

The Data folder is used by your program - exe or stack during runtime.
By default HyperNext saves certain information and it places some of it in there.
For instance canvases - if you have a canvas then your program saves it in there before moving to the next card so that it will be availabe for reloading in case the prior card is needed again.

The Resource folder is a legacy folder for older HyperNext built applications and stacks.

I don't use the Data folder as its best to let your program/stack take over that folder but you could use the Resource folder or make your own dedicated folder just as you have already done.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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carlk

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 09:55:30 PM »
I'm sorry, Malkom, but I find your reply rather vague and unhelpful.

Should I make my own dedicated folder(s) inside the Data folder?  Or inside the Resource folder?  Or in some other folder that is not inside either of those folders?  I get the impression that the Resource folder and the Data folder should probably both be left alone.

I'm thinking ahead to what a user - someone who might be somewhat unfamiliar with and intimidated by the complexities of computers and file storage who might want to use my spelling program.  I'd like to keep the number of folders down to an absolute minimum to reduce potential confusion for such users.  But they will need to be able to create and properly place text files with lists of words, and also record and properly store mp3 or other format sound files with the word pronunciations, in order to best take advantage of this program - meaning not using the "computer voice" which is a less than adequate option.  If there are too many folders, especially with potentially confusing names, such as Sounds and SoundFiles, it becomes unnecessarily confusing and difficult to deal with.

So, just what is the Sounds folder for?  It seems to me that shouldn't be such a difficult question for you to answer.  If I don't put any files in it, and if I don't find any files that HyperNext has created, why should it even have to be distributed with my spelling program?  Why should some user have to ever even have to potentially be confused by it.

And the same goes for any of the other Resource or Data folders that have nothing in them.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Malkom

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2011, 07:08:25 AM »
Quote from: "carlk"
I'm sorry, Malkom, but I find your reply rather vague and unhelpful.

Should I make my own dedicated folder(s) inside the Data folder?  Or inside the Resource folder?  Or in some other folder that is not inside either of those folders?  I get the impression that the Resource folder and the Data folder should probably both be left alone.

I'm thinking ahead to what a user - someone who might be somewhat unfamiliar with and intimidated by the complexities of computers and file storage who might want to use my spelling program.  I'd like to keep the number of folders down to an absolute minimum to reduce potential confusion for such users.  But they will need to be able to create and properly place text files with lists of words, and also record and properly store mp3 or other format sound files with the word pronunciations, in order to best take advantage of this program - meaning not using the "computer voice" which is a less than adequate option.  If there are too many folders, especially with potentially confusing names, such as Sounds and SoundFiles, it becomes unnecessarily confusing and difficult to deal with.

So, just what is the Sounds folder for?  It seems to me that shouldn't be such a difficult question for you to answer.  If I don't put any files in it, and if I don't find any files that HyperNext has created, why should it even have to be distributed with my spelling program?  Why should some user have to ever even have to potentially be confused by it.

And the same goes for any of the other Resource or Data folders that have nothing in them.

Yes I can understand it could easily be confusing for users.

Assume you have a project called WordTest and don't use the Resource Library or add any of you own folders.

If you distribute as stack it will have these in the folder WordTest
- WordTest.stk
- data (folder)

If you distribute as executable it will have these in the folder WordTest
- WordTest.exe
- stand.app
- data (folder)

Anything else can be removed, the Resources folder, the WordTest.prj etc

So, in other words:-
- leave the Data folder unchanged
- if you like use the Resource folder - remove or add folders as you require  
- if you don't like the Resource folder then remove it

I hope this is clearer - but you certainly need the Data folder there.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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carlk

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2011, 03:43:07 PM »
Thanks, Malkom.  It is helpful to have a somewhat clearer and more definitive statement regarding these folders.  This is definitely something you should add to the documentation - perhaps the Quick Start Guide.

It would be great, though, to get this all cleaned up better so as to simplify things to the max, with as few "extra" parts and pieces as possible, beyond the basic application or stack.  For example, I'm wondering what the  stand.app  is.  As tiny a file as it is, why isn't it just wrapped up into the application or stack?

By the way, I'm on a Mac, so I don't deal in  .exe  files.   :D

Which reminds me...  Under the Go menu, there are options for:  'Build Mac OS X PEF' and 'Build Mac OS X MachO'  - what do 'PEF' and 'MachO' stand for?  I seem to only be able to use the PEF option.  (PowerBook G4, OSX 10.4.11)
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »

Malkom

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 04:22:19 PM »
Quote from: "carlk"
It would be great, though, to get this all cleaned up better so as to simplify things to the max, with as few "extra" parts and pieces as possible, beyond the basic application or stack.  For example, I'm wondering what the  stand.app  is.  As tiny a file as it is, why isn't it just wrapped up into the application or stack?
Unfortunately that file is required to run your program when you make a standalone application.



Quote from: "carlk"
Which reminds me...  Under the Go menu, there are options for:  'Build Mac OS X PEF' and 'Build Mac OS X MachO'  - what do 'PEF' and 'MachO' stand for?  I seem to only be able to use the PEF option.  (PowerBook G4, OSX 10.4.11)
The PEF is the older build from when PPC Macs were around running OS 9 while MachO is the basis of for OS X although PEF still runs fine on OS X.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 AM by Guest »
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carlk

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2011, 04:27:23 PM »
So why am I getting a message that says  "Sorry but Mach-O build not implemented!"  when I try to use it?
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Malkom

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Re: What are the default Data folders for?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 06:06:10 AM »
Quote from: "carlk"
So why am I getting a message that says  "Sorry but Mach-O build not implemented!"  when I try to use it?

because its not implemented yet - the PEF build still works fine on current Macs and once Mach-O builds are ready then that menu option will become active.
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